Why Strategic RevOps is Critical for Modern Businesses

Aaron Janmohamed: This is another episode of the Revenue Mavericks podcast and I can't wait to introduce our guest today. This is Craig...

8
00:00:30.660 --> 00:00:41.890
Aaron Janmohamed: a number of years ago. While I was at inside sales he was at Topo, and then he he went over to Gartner, and I've changed around a couple of times. But it's good to reconnect. You want to introduce yourself, Greg.

9
00:00:42.420 --> 00:00:44.400
craig@scalevp.com: Yeah, I mean, look, that's

10
00:00:44.410 --> 00:00:45.479
craig@scalevp.com: we can.

11
00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:53.769
craig@scalevp.com: We could start my career at Topo right? Because that's where I really, I met guys like you and really dug into this business. We did that for about 8 years.

12
00:00:53.970 --> 00:00:59.159
craig@scalevp.com: I was the chief analyst. So I was the crazy guy. That's why I got to talk to Aaron all the time, cause.

13
00:00:59.616 --> 00:01:00.530
Aaron Janmohamed: That's right.

14
00:01:00.530 --> 00:01:03.569
craig@scalevp.com: He wanted to bounce his go to market ideas off me, and.

15
00:01:03.740 --> 00:01:05.010
Aaron Janmohamed: Absolutely.

16
00:01:05.239 --> 00:01:11.989
craig@scalevp.com: That's why today will be fun. And then, yeah, we got Papa Gardner. We spent 2 and a half years, and I think it's relevant to bring up. Just because I think

17
00:01:11.999 --> 00:01:15.799
craig@scalevp.com: ultimately we did a lot of really good work there on Rev. Ops.

18
00:01:15.839 --> 00:01:26.779
craig@scalevp.com: and sort of thinking about it strategically and then. Now for the last couple of years I've been the chief platform officer at scale venture partners, and you know we're

19
00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:28.829
craig@scalevp.com: a Vc. Firm here in

20
00:01:28.979 --> 00:01:53.329
craig@scalevp.com: in Silicon Valley. This is Foster City behind me, and I work with the portfolio. You know our 50 plus portfolio companies on their go to market and across everything, marketing, Sdr sales, CS, Rev. Ops, etc. So it's been a long time of looking at what's happening in go to market. Not just tech, but strategy, people process, etc. So

21
00:01:53.349 --> 00:01:58.439
craig@scalevp.com: and then the last thing I'll mention is, I do have a podcast. Also called the Transaction.

22
00:01:58.559 --> 00:02:04.639
craig@scalevp.com: And you know, we come out weekly on Thursdays, and I hope everyone takes a listen.

23
00:02:05.210 --> 00:02:34.530
Aaron Janmohamed: That's awesome. You have a better cadence than we do. We're we're still getting this thing off the ground. But you mentioned you mentioned. Rev. Ops, that's going to be the focus of today. There's a lot of things that I want to ask. You sent me some some really interesting materials, things that you had written while you were at top on Gartner. And so I I want to start the very top we had discussed. Wanting to define Rev. Ops in a more strategic way. Why don't you just kick off? Why, that's essential. And maybe we can start with that definition, and then we'll get into it.

24
00:02:35.600 --> 00:02:43.419
craig@scalevp.com: Well, I mean, it's essential, because I think we're still all over the place a bit on Rev. Ops. And it's okay.

25
00:02:43.430 --> 00:02:55.800
craig@scalevp.com: It's you've been in the game long enough. It's so funny you got this. There's these packs of people. It's like these people that are really frustrated by these people that have no idea these people, that sort of love, their sort of different definition of things. But.

26
00:02:55.820 --> 00:03:00.720
craig@scalevp.com: like, you know, I do think we need to make sure that Rev. Ops is not

27
00:03:00.920 --> 00:03:04.140
craig@scalevp.com: just a glorified name for Sales Ops.

28
00:03:04.210 --> 00:03:07.389
craig@scalevp.com: I do feel like that. There was some initial

29
00:03:07.430 --> 00:03:22.060
craig@scalevp.com: that was sort of the initial definition was like something just making it. You know a name right? It's even that. It's not just a group. It's it's in my opinion, it's you know, it's important to think about Rev. Ops as the way you work.

30
00:03:22.940 --> 00:03:32.750
craig@scalevp.com: you know. I think that's you know, we were talking about Gardner. I think that in in Topa. That's I think we did a really good job of saying, Look, no, Rev. Ops is how you operate. It's how you work.

31
00:03:32.910 --> 00:03:37.109
craig@scalevp.com: You want to think about your business as interconnected and end to end

32
00:03:37.260 --> 00:03:58.299
craig@scalevp.com: right and a full end to end revenue process that spans multiple go to market functions. And, as you know, because you've been in the game long enough, even though you're been in the Rev. Ops game. If you just took your, you know, years in business being able to manage an interconnected operating model requires.

33
00:03:59.393 --> 00:04:05.410
craig@scalevp.com: You know our this new idea of Rev. Ops people that can actually manage that sort of.

34
00:04:05.510 --> 00:04:21.950
craig@scalevp.com: And I, you know, it's amazing. It's just really important, because otherwise we'll think about it really, tactically. You know, I'll go in. The guy's like I'm in Rev. Ops, and he's doing comp plans now. Sure like that's you know that that I'm not there to demean comp plans, but like as an organization, we have to take a step back and look at things differently. And that's

35
00:04:22.130 --> 00:04:23.909
craig@scalevp.com: why, in my opinion.

36
00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:29.349
craig@scalevp.com: it's the definition is actually a positioning, and it's a better way to look at the world

37
00:04:29.450 --> 00:04:46.680
craig@scalevp.com: and like, if we did it that way, and said, Look like, here's the operating model that we need to run by now let's go figure out the people, because in many ways Rev. Ops has been defined as people. And then there's Tech, I mean as names as titles. Rev. Ops was titles.

38
00:04:46.820 --> 00:04:51.660
craig@scalevp.com: And then we have your market where it's like, well, this is Rev. Ops, which is Tech.

39
00:04:51.910 --> 00:04:54.840
craig@scalevp.com: It's actually the Rev. Ops tech

40
00:04:55.000 --> 00:05:01.439
craig@scalevp.com: is, that's the second thing which is like this. I have this great story for you, which is like, you know, when I went to Gartner, the Gartner guys.

41
00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:04.800
craig@scalevp.com: we're really business strategy, first, st

42
00:05:05.070 --> 00:05:15.800
craig@scalevp.com: right? Tech, second. And so for me, you know, I was at Topo. I'm like tech tac. And so when we worked on things like Rev. Ops, or go to market strategy. I was always really cautious. I said, well.

43
00:05:15.910 --> 00:05:17.920
craig@scalevp.com: I try not to talk about the tech.

44
00:05:18.140 --> 00:05:22.050
craig@scalevp.com: And then we talked about Rev. Ops, and we came to this really great.

45
00:05:22.150 --> 00:05:23.689
craig@scalevp.com: you know, way of thinking.

46
00:05:24.150 --> 00:05:25.370
craig@scalevp.com: And then

47
00:05:25.510 --> 00:05:28.340
craig@scalevp.com: God, Dave Egloff, right? He's like a really great.

48
00:05:28.340 --> 00:05:28.720
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

49
00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:44.069
craig@scalevp.com: Over there and like, and he was always beating on me about tech first.st And so I was like working with him on this. I'm like, Oh, man, I not tech. And then we go through everything we said, well, look like, here's how you operate. It's interconnected. It's optimized. It's 10 to any he goes. We can't do that

50
00:05:44.310 --> 00:05:57.930
craig@scalevp.com: without modern technology, you know, like what you guys do at boost up. And I was like, Oh, my God, there's the win, you know. It's like, so you, you have this. We just have a lot of ways that we're defining. Rev. Ops going back to your original question. I going.

51
00:05:57.930 --> 00:05:58.820
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah, I had.

52
00:05:59.010 --> 00:06:05.949
craig@scalevp.com: And we've got to think 1st about what it is we're trying to do as a business, and that's how we should think about revenue operations. Then we.

53
00:06:05.950 --> 00:06:06.620
Aaron Janmohamed: You want to.

54
00:06:06.620 --> 00:06:07.409
craig@scalevp.com: Support it.

55
00:06:08.010 --> 00:06:13.240
Aaron Janmohamed: I had a really conversation with with a prospect yesterday, and

56
00:06:13.330 --> 00:06:30.560
Aaron Janmohamed: at 1st he said, you know we use the term sales OP. And Rev. Ops. Anonymous. That's not the 1st time I've heard that I'm surprised that it's still pretty common. How how many people just think of Sales Ops. And Rev. Ops is the same thing just rebranded. But then we broke it out. And you know we were talking to this guy about his business. You know they have

57
00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:44.230
Aaron Janmohamed: sales that's generating revenue. They have a marketing source. Pipeline figure they have. Cs is generating revenue, even product. They have a plg motion. It's like, when you break revenue out into all these different components. What's the thing that's tying them all together?

58
00:06:44.380 --> 00:06:53.139
Aaron Janmohamed: You know. What? What is the is there a function. Or do you operate siloed? It's like, yeah, we're we're kind of siloed in our approach. And it's like, I think that's how a lot of organizations

59
00:06:53.220 --> 00:07:00.179
Aaron Janmohamed: used to operate, maybe are still operating. And and why? There's confusion around Rev. Ops tying this entire journey together because

60
00:07:00.200 --> 00:07:05.350
Aaron Janmohamed: seems to be where it needs to go. I I don't know if you've noticed that, or if you have any thoughts on that.

61
00:07:05.820 --> 00:07:08.099
craig@scalevp.com: Well, yeah, that's I mean, that's we're trying to

62
00:07:09.086 --> 00:07:15.749
craig@scalevp.com: so actually, let me take a step back before I start get I got to stay out of the ivory tower right here. That's essentially what.

63
00:07:15.750 --> 00:07:16.610
Aaron Janmohamed: That's great!

64
00:07:16.610 --> 00:07:17.829
craig@scalevp.com: Bro. I just talked to.

65
00:07:17.830 --> 00:07:18.220
Aaron Janmohamed: Hey!

66
00:07:18.220 --> 00:07:21.140
craig@scalevp.com: He's really good at his job. And he's like, we're in silos.

67
00:07:21.200 --> 00:07:26.580
craig@scalevp.com: So I actually think that's why Rev. Ops is really important is that we do

68
00:07:26.790 --> 00:07:36.569
craig@scalevp.com: have to allow for the continuation of people living in their fiefdoms. And so this is a nuanced answer. But

69
00:07:36.830 --> 00:07:41.660
craig@scalevp.com: let's see, I'll give. I'll give you a good example, which was Andy Moat. I'm sure you know him, you know.

70
00:07:41.660 --> 00:07:42.180
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

71
00:07:42.180 --> 00:07:45.239
craig@scalevp.com: About Rev. Ops, and he talks about box where it's like

72
00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:51.769
craig@scalevp.com: he's like, well, we took everything in under Rev. Ops, and then we realized. Holy crap marketing has their own needs

73
00:07:51.860 --> 00:08:01.460
craig@scalevp.com: in their own way. So instead, we're going to push all the things that marketing Ops specifically have to do. And we're going to keep marketing. Ops. We're not going to call it

74
00:08:01.570 --> 00:08:06.239
craig@scalevp.com: Rev. Ops is going to focus on looking for issues across everything.

75
00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:06.660
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

76
00:08:06.660 --> 00:08:13.170
craig@scalevp.com: If you want to have silos, I actually think you can allow for that. It actually is the case for Rev. Ops.

77
00:08:13.320 --> 00:08:21.949
craig@scalevp.com: which is, that's the so. I have a really great Rev. Ops leader in the portfolio Guy named Tom Murtaugh, big Id. And if you look at the issues he brings up.

78
00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:23.990
craig@scalevp.com: it tries to solve, for

79
00:08:24.230 --> 00:08:25.500
craig@scalevp.com: he brings up.

80
00:08:25.570 --> 00:08:29.399
craig@scalevp.com: you know these things that are across, where workflows break or where.

81
00:08:29.400 --> 00:08:30.000
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

82
00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:54.200
craig@scalevp.com: You know, can I look at? You know, you guys, really, you know, when I talk to you and look at you know how you guys are thinking about the business? It's like, Well, you do got to say, if there's an issue here, can we look at everything to go figure it out, and he does that, even though there's still people in there. It's not full, Silas. We'd rather have a commercial coalition is what we called it at. That's our ultimate goal is that everything sort of

83
00:08:54.430 --> 00:08:59.029
craig@scalevp.com: they think everyone thinks of theirselves as intertwined. But in the meantime.

84
00:08:59.060 --> 00:09:05.380
craig@scalevp.com: can Rev. Ops help, you know. Look at everyone's business in the right way. A perfect example is just

85
00:09:05.590 --> 00:09:09.370
craig@scalevp.com: metrics. What we look at and who decides what we track.

86
00:09:09.530 --> 00:09:19.910
craig@scalevp.com: So, Aaron, I don't know if you've had this experience. But I used to sit Topo all the time where our 1st meeting was an argument, because marketing had their own metrics and sales had their own metrics.

87
00:09:19.910 --> 00:09:20.680
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

88
00:09:20.680 --> 00:09:33.160
craig@scalevp.com: And it's like, well, you know, let's just have Rev. Ops. If we could just start with that which is like, How do we look at the entire business, and then we need, you know, and then Rev. Ops can figure out honestly in their own way to track

89
00:09:33.170 --> 00:09:35.290
craig@scalevp.com: right so that they can expose that.

90
00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:37.789
craig@scalevp.com: That's a start, even with silos.

91
00:09:37.860 --> 00:09:41.770
craig@scalevp.com: Just like, have, you know, agreeing on what we're gonna look at across the business.

92
00:09:41.870 --> 00:09:50.009
craig@scalevp.com: By the way, yeah, I love that you brought that up, though. So keep checking me against the boards on these like things where I'm like going back to my days of.

93
00:09:50.260 --> 00:10:08.919
Aaron Janmohamed: No, it's really that's really helpful. And so so what I'm hearing is, yeah, you you do need to keep the silos to a degree, and then Rev. Ops provides a lens across the business. It's interesting because IA and then you spoke about metrics. I was our our last guest or one of our previous guests in the podcast is Kyle Lacey, who's you know Mel.

94
00:10:09.090 --> 00:10:36.679
Aaron Janmohamed: So he he's pretty well known. Cmo's at seismic jellyfish now, and he was talking about the need. You know, one of the biggest things that he focuses on is is the alignment piece around key metrics for the business. Of course, marketing is gonna have their their branch, but all has to meet at some common trunk that everyone is aligned to, and if that's missing. Then the whole business starts to become disorganized in a way. Do you have a perspective on the kinds of orienting metrics that that teams need to be calibrated around

95
00:10:36.810 --> 00:10:39.119
Aaron Janmohamed: that that that maybe

96
00:10:39.220 --> 00:10:44.259
Aaron Janmohamed: maybe Rev. Ops needs to be responsible for. They need to be monitoring on a regular basis.

97
00:10:44.780 --> 00:10:51.169
craig@scalevp.com: Yeah. By the way, perfect example is bringing up Kyle. He's in marketing.

98
00:10:51.470 --> 00:10:51.790
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

99
00:10:51.790 --> 00:10:56.189
craig@scalevp.com: And like you probably have salespeople on, and whatever you know, it's like.

100
00:10:56.190 --> 00:10:56.620
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

101
00:10:56.620 --> 00:11:03.310
craig@scalevp.com: Is but just to be clear. Silos are bad, but but let's deal with reality. Silos are there.

102
00:11:03.760 --> 00:11:04.210
Aaron Janmohamed: Okay.

103
00:11:04.210 --> 00:11:11.699
craig@scalevp.com: That I don't. I mean, I just don't want to fight. We can't fight too many fights, Aaron. We gotta pick what hills we want to climb.

104
00:11:11.700 --> 00:11:12.319
Aaron Janmohamed: That's yeah.

105
00:11:13.250 --> 00:11:38.769
craig@scalevp.com: You know I don't know. You know for me this, the shape of your funnel and the journey defines your metrics. I think you need to look at 2. Rev. Ops can really be helpful in syncing against sort of big strategic metrics like examples just to keep it simple is pipeline generated, and looking at the way you know, looking at these sort of big things versus Mqls, or whatever it's like, can we just look at? I don't know meetings, pipeline. That's like the big

106
00:11:39.223 --> 00:11:43.770
craig@scalevp.com: but the key, the really good Rev. Ops. People look at the the entire journey

107
00:11:44.150 --> 00:11:51.099
craig@scalevp.com: and then define our internal processes and the jobs to be done across that journey. And those metrics

108
00:11:51.180 --> 00:11:56.329
craig@scalevp.com: are where Rev. Ops can be amazing, right? Because then they could. So they can find

109
00:11:56.350 --> 00:11:57.710
craig@scalevp.com: latency.

110
00:11:58.040 --> 00:12:11.610
craig@scalevp.com: right? Blockers, etc. It's it's like, you know, you're looking at this sort of stream of things. We we looked at everything so differently. It's like marketing does everything they can to generate the lead, and then sales has these sales process steps

111
00:12:11.700 --> 00:12:22.300
craig@scalevp.com: cool? Well, they're already there. So let's just go look at it. See if it matches to the way people buy our product. And then let's look at those metrics there. So that second layer is like.

112
00:12:22.610 --> 00:12:30.009
craig@scalevp.com: you know, what does the throughput look like? You have to have sort of common ways that you look at the various steps to do that

113
00:12:30.210 --> 00:12:32.259
craig@scalevp.com: everyone can have their unique

114
00:12:32.450 --> 00:12:47.799
craig@scalevp.com: business, right? So like, for example, the sort of there's this aversion. You just brought it up to Mqls right well, I'd say from the thought leadership class. There's an aversion to Mqls from the reality. Base people are still looking at them. But look.

115
00:12:47.800 --> 00:12:48.160
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

116
00:12:48.160 --> 00:12:53.710
craig@scalevp.com: Where there's businesses today where you're not going to go to like a I don't know a

117
00:12:53.750 --> 00:12:56.070
craig@scalevp.com: a pl company. And and

118
00:12:56.130 --> 00:12:59.280
craig@scalevp.com: look, you know, sort of be like. Well, we can't look at

119
00:12:59.380 --> 00:13:01.370
craig@scalevp.com: form fills, or Mqls, or whatever.

120
00:13:01.370 --> 00:13:02.120
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah, sounds good.

121
00:13:02.120 --> 00:13:23.169
craig@scalevp.com: Right. So like that's my point. Like, I'm not going to talk generically and look at. I think you look at your business. You look at the you can call whatever you want the most important thing it doesn't match. How people buy. Does it match the experience you want to deliver to them end to end. And then let's look at the milestones and the things that happen. And let's track that. And then Rev. Ops is amazing. There.

122
00:13:23.560 --> 00:13:24.060
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

123
00:13:24.060 --> 00:13:25.259
craig@scalevp.com: You guys sort of

124
00:13:25.290 --> 00:13:51.439
craig@scalevp.com: look at the entire business. And so it's like, well, you could start with. I don't care. You could start with the forecast, you could start with conversion rates, or whatever but like. Let's, instead of that, launching into this massive investigation, where we have to go, dig up all these different things we should be looking at all the time like, great Rev. Ops guys are watching the not just guys people. I apologize. Yeah. You know, they're looking at this stuff all the time. They can identify things proactively as well.

125
00:13:51.460 --> 00:13:58.260
craig@scalevp.com: So yeah, so you got to agree at the top, which is like, what are the big things we're going to look at together. Then you got to look at

126
00:13:58.410 --> 00:14:05.100
craig@scalevp.com: milestones across the journey, and that's going to be your own unique way of looking at the business. The only other thing I'd say there

127
00:14:05.150 --> 00:14:08.700
craig@scalevp.com: is there's likely going to be multiple

128
00:14:09.289 --> 00:14:12.980
craig@scalevp.com: paths right? So if you have. Let's say, enterprise versus

129
00:14:14.237 --> 00:14:16.112
craig@scalevp.com: consumer prosumer

130
00:14:17.160 --> 00:14:23.669
craig@scalevp.com: plg, you're gonna have different ways. You look at it, and that's fine. Guess what you want to look at it. You better have Rev. Ops. You better.

131
00:14:23.670 --> 00:14:24.480
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

132
00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:33.619
craig@scalevp.com: You know what I mean like, and so that that's but you see where I'm going on this, which is like, well, let's run the business this way because everyone's like

133
00:14:33.700 --> 00:14:46.970
craig@scalevp.com: when we want to talk about Rev. Ops. We're just like, let's name them Rev. Ops, and go do that. No, let's go run the business this way, and then guess what how the hell are you gonna do this? It's like you need tech. And you need someone. You know, you need someone who can look at this and help organize

134
00:14:46.980 --> 00:14:53.649
craig@scalevp.com: the organization. And if the coalition between go-to-market functions is just metrics, for now

135
00:14:54.050 --> 00:15:03.249
craig@scalevp.com: that's okay. That's again, like I said, I said it 5 times. I apologize. That's the actual reason you want. Rev. Ops. Yeah. Otherwise you're dead. You're gonna have.

136
00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:09.340
craig@scalevp.com: You know you're not gonna be looking at the business in the right way. So sorry, man, I'm almost you got me going. You brought me on. Let me talk about.

137
00:15:09.340 --> 00:15:25.720
Aaron Janmohamed: Well, this is the this is the conversation I want. You know you. You also mentioned a couple of times. I love that you talk about needing to map to the way your buyers buy. I I find a lot of organizations don't do that. Well, fact, we had a big part of our messaging when I was at consensus was this idea of buyer enablement?

138
00:15:25.860 --> 00:15:48.750
Aaron Janmohamed: You know, the people that are actually closing deals or buyers, not sellers. And so the seller kind of becomes a a coach on how to buy, because we did research and found, you know, the number of buyers that actually feel confident about the process required to to go through buying technology is, it's like none of them know how to do it. There's no training on how to buy effectively. And so part of what the business needs to be calibrated towards is

139
00:15:48.760 --> 00:15:57.179
Aaron Janmohamed: guiding buyers through their journey. And if if I bring this back to operations. If you're not calibrated towards the way your buyers buy.

140
00:15:57.240 --> 00:16:05.150
Aaron Janmohamed: you're certainly not going to be aligned internally. Your teams are going to be somewhat dysfunctional, and I actually saw that working with pre-sales teams. I'm finding it.

141
00:16:05.630 --> 00:16:10.770
Aaron Janmohamed: It clearly translates to what operations teams are dealing with on a day-to-day basis.

142
00:16:11.060 --> 00:16:11.680
craig@scalevp.com: App.

143
00:16:12.330 --> 00:16:15.525
craig@scalevp.com: I don't know that. Yeah, I don't know that.

144
00:16:16.810 --> 00:16:25.909
craig@scalevp.com: well, actually, here. So just think about what you guys, what you were just typing out by our enablement. And let's just take it from the Rev. Ops lens. So you have Rev. Ops, looking at

145
00:16:26.150 --> 00:16:41.139
craig@scalevp.com: you know what's happening across the milestones. What's happening traditionally. So you you know, everyone asked me for benchmarks. I got benchmarks, but your benchmarks are most important. Yeah, if you see things going up or down, or you feel like this is the place. If we lift by 5%,

146
00:16:41.260 --> 00:16:44.550
craig@scalevp.com: that's where Rev. Ops helps, they say, Okay, well, let's go look at what's happening

147
00:16:44.700 --> 00:16:49.060
craig@scalevp.com: and what's happening in, by the way, in met multiple businesses is.

148
00:16:49.220 --> 00:16:54.150
craig@scalevp.com: the buyers are afraid they're, you know. Sorry about that. Was that me?

149
00:16:54.470 --> 00:16:57.839
craig@scalevp.com: The the buyers are afraid to buy, so like

150
00:16:58.532 --> 00:17:03.340
craig@scalevp.com: how do we help them? And then you know, that leads you down the Buyer enablement path.

151
00:17:03.370 --> 00:17:06.349
craig@scalevp.com: And not just that, because you're looking at things

152
00:17:06.630 --> 00:17:15.050
craig@scalevp.com: the right way and looking at your process against the journey, you can actually make really good decisions on what and buyer enablement you need to create and what.

153
00:17:15.050 --> 00:17:15.380
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

154
00:17:15.380 --> 00:17:16.400
craig@scalevp.com: Deliver it.

155
00:17:16.569 --> 00:17:20.990
craig@scalevp.com: And and so, yeah, so I told, that's a great example of

156
00:17:21.300 --> 00:17:27.760
craig@scalevp.com: what you would uncover doing these things. And, by the way I do want to mention one other thing on behalf of marketing

157
00:17:27.829 --> 00:17:36.479
craig@scalevp.com: is a lot of times when we glorify sales Ops in a rep. You know the the natural, with all due respect to all my friends and sales Ops, because I'm

158
00:17:36.690 --> 00:17:41.199
craig@scalevp.com: been in the game for a long time. I love these guys, but they've always been operators

159
00:17:41.360 --> 00:17:46.080
craig@scalevp.com: for the cro or the Vp. Of sales, and so their 1st instinct

160
00:17:46.310 --> 00:17:49.589
craig@scalevp.com: is always to to start shooting bullets at marketing

161
00:17:49.780 --> 00:17:51.240
craig@scalevp.com: when things go bad.

162
00:17:51.390 --> 00:18:01.149
craig@scalevp.com: and that's not the way we want this thing to work. As a matter of fact, we take that step back right as Rev. Ops, and we say, No, we're looking at the entire business. I'm not just

163
00:18:01.410 --> 00:18:04.000
craig@scalevp.com: working on behalf of the Vp. Of sales.

164
00:18:04.210 --> 00:18:10.469
craig@scalevp.com: I'm working on behalf of the entire business that allows you to look at. I know that's not what you brought up, but it is important, because.

165
00:18:10.470 --> 00:18:17.641
Aaron Janmohamed: Oh, it's good to call out, Hey, us marketers were a selfless, humble bunch, and we just we just want the recognition we deserve.

166
00:18:17.940 --> 00:18:19.690
craig@scalevp.com: We made you that way. No.

167
00:18:19.690 --> 00:18:20.420
Aaron Janmohamed: Say it's great.

168
00:18:20.420 --> 00:18:23.720
craig@scalevp.com: But the the good news for marketing, in my opinion, when we

169
00:18:23.780 --> 00:18:30.520
craig@scalevp.com: when we're so, I do think marketing led all of this because they were the 1st in the go to market to. Really.

170
00:18:30.870 --> 00:18:32.360
craig@scalevp.com: you'll use data.

171
00:18:32.840 --> 00:18:33.430
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah, I.

172
00:18:33.430 --> 00:18:33.870
craig@scalevp.com: Yeah.

173
00:18:33.870 --> 00:18:43.875
Aaron Janmohamed: Well by necessity in the age which we're in, you cannot. You simply cannot operate without heavy amounts of surgically applied data. I it's it's necessary.

174
00:18:44.260 --> 00:18:52.539
craig@scalevp.com: And they were good at in the 1st place. But when we put them in a silo and locked them into creating that one metric, and said, Throw those over the fence and go away.

175
00:18:52.540 --> 00:18:53.060
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

176
00:18:53.396 --> 00:19:21.310
craig@scalevp.com: That was bad and and like, if revops can say, Well, look, here's what happens to all the things that you do that's you know, and and Nope dude. This is not a firing squad. This is like a full optimization. Can we sit here and look and say these things look good now, but when they come through here they go bad. We'll look at why like down the line. But it could be that we can spend more money or optimize

177
00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:29.160
craig@scalevp.com: this distribution channel versus others. I think marketing always did that actually pretty well. They looked at metrics, but, like.

178
00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:29.640
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

179
00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:36.230
craig@scalevp.com: With Rev. Ops. We can take it further, we can a diagnose. What's really happening like a perfect example is a lot of times

180
00:19:36.360 --> 00:19:38.206
craig@scalevp.com: marketing creates

181
00:19:39.450 --> 00:19:45.189
craig@scalevp.com: meetings or leads, or whatever, and the way we handle the 1st call is what's killing them?

182
00:19:46.180 --> 00:20:03.430
craig@scalevp.com: How many times? But that's where you got to take a step back and say, Well, how do we work? What happens? And then let's actually make sure. Because, like, I used to do this because I worked with marketing more than sales for years. And it was like, well, first, st before we kill distribution channels, what happens?

183
00:20:03.570 --> 00:20:13.160
craig@scalevp.com: Yeah, things go through. And and if we're looking at that all the time, then we can make even better decisions on behalf of marketing that really move the needle.

184
00:20:13.740 --> 00:20:24.190
craig@scalevp.com: That's good. And, like you said. We've marketers. I don't think they start humble. They end up humble because they, you know, they're taking all the arrows, and they're putting all these things back out.

185
00:20:24.350 --> 00:20:37.639
craig@scalevp.com: and they're willing as long as everyone's in agreement. And it's fair, which is what Revops is about. Marketing's down, man. They're good with that, and they're already marketing centric. I mean, data centric. So it's like, Yeah.

186
00:20:37.770 --> 00:20:39.390
craig@scalevp.com: anyway. Sorry, man, I'm just.

187
00:20:39.390 --> 00:20:55.229
Aaron Janmohamed: No, that's a that's great insights. I appreciate that I do. Wanna cite so or read something to you that you wrote. So I'm gonna I'm gonna check your memory if I'll have you fill in the blank to see how much of this you remember. But in one of the articles you sent me, said Sales Ops leaders

188
00:20:55.350 --> 00:21:06.669
Aaron Janmohamed: are adopting the Rev. Ops revenue operations to align. I like like that. You're talking about alignment to go to market functions and create, as you've already talked about that end revenue process.

189
00:21:07.098 --> 00:21:19.049
Aaron Janmohamed: But you said, the transformation to this operating model is not as internally disruptive, as many think. I personally seen and heard people talk about how disruptive it's going to be. Why is it not as disruptive as they think.

190
00:21:22.150 --> 00:21:23.909
craig@scalevp.com: hurt that guy. What an amazing

191
00:21:26.590 --> 00:21:33.496
craig@scalevp.com: So look, I I mean, well, one of the reasons that I think it's it's really important is that

192
00:21:34.040 --> 00:21:36.069
craig@scalevp.com: we just we didn't want.

193
00:21:36.380 --> 00:21:39.699
craig@scalevp.com: We wanted to make sure. People understood that.

194
00:21:40.553 --> 00:21:45.210
craig@scalevp.com: Rev. Ops is actually a beneficial service provider, not an invader.

195
00:21:46.020 --> 00:21:50.749
craig@scalevp.com: There's a lot of reasons they're thought it's thought of that way because it's years of

196
00:21:51.297 --> 00:21:56.209
craig@scalevp.com: you know, built up defensiveness that we've created. By the way, we've worked in the past.

197
00:21:56.998 --> 00:22:02.149
craig@scalevp.com: And you know, if you just take you and I actually today haven't really

198
00:22:02.520 --> 00:22:15.050
craig@scalevp.com: talk like a comprehensive Rev. Ops. What you and I are talking about is like, well, can we just have Rev. Ops. Just look at the entire business and help everyone come together and agree on metrics. That's Rev. Ops, that's great.

199
00:22:15.792 --> 00:22:20.989
craig@scalevp.com: And that's really, you know, part of where I was coming from there, which is.

200
00:22:21.150 --> 00:22:29.360
craig@scalevp.com: you know, if you take that Andy Moat story. Well, they ate everything they brought everything in. Well, of course, that looks gnarly, that's like.

201
00:22:29.430 --> 00:22:36.859
craig@scalevp.com: let's just start with. Can we agree on? Can we come together and meet and agree on the way? The business, you know.

202
00:22:37.010 --> 00:22:40.750
craig@scalevp.com: works and have Rev. Ops as sort of the guide

203
00:22:40.870 --> 00:22:45.969
craig@scalevp.com: to go do that. Then, you know that seems safe. Nobody should be afraid of that.

204
00:22:45.970 --> 00:22:46.760
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

205
00:22:47.320 --> 00:23:06.420
Aaron Janmohamed: why does that happen? I mean there, I would imagine, for for teams to run revenue operations appropriately, there are certain capabilities. The org needs to have. There are attributes that the teams need to fill in. Wh. What's missing that that makes it so hard for some teams to to appropriately adopt revenue operations, models.

206
00:23:07.360 --> 00:23:09.095
craig@scalevp.com: Well, I would say.

207
00:23:10.860 --> 00:23:12.160
craig@scalevp.com: Oh, man.

208
00:23:12.180 --> 00:23:19.610
craig@scalevp.com: I feel like we're on our own way on that. It's another reason why I probably wrote that. I don't know. I wrote a long time ago. Maybe my thoughts have changed. But

209
00:23:20.271 --> 00:23:23.159
craig@scalevp.com: you know, it's just it's us.

210
00:23:23.610 --> 00:23:24.040
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

211
00:23:24.040 --> 00:23:27.339
craig@scalevp.com: Number 2 is like the CEO has to lay down

212
00:23:27.810 --> 00:23:32.400
craig@scalevp.com: that we're going to work in a rep, you know, if you take what I said, which is like.

213
00:23:32.430 --> 00:23:35.699
craig@scalevp.com: you know, revenue Ops is a model of operating.

214
00:23:35.940 --> 00:23:42.139
craig@scalevp.com: Yeah, that has to come from the top. And that Rev. Ops person can't like, I said, can't just be.

215
00:23:42.370 --> 00:23:47.009
craig@scalevp.com: even though sales Ops, you know, we we sort of said Look sales Ops is turning into Rev. Ops.

216
00:23:47.070 --> 00:23:48.820
craig@scalevp.com: We said that because that's real.

217
00:23:49.190 --> 00:23:49.510
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

218
00:23:49.510 --> 00:23:51.999
craig@scalevp.com: Happening, but they can't just represent

219
00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:53.400
craig@scalevp.com: one group.

220
00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:54.370
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

221
00:23:54.550 --> 00:23:57.050
craig@scalevp.com: And so I mean, look.

222
00:23:57.090 --> 00:24:01.049
craig@scalevp.com: this is what I was saying, man, we got years of pent-up defensiveness.

223
00:24:01.180 --> 00:24:01.810
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

224
00:24:02.150 --> 00:24:10.800
craig@scalevp.com: And I don't blame anybody. You've been in those rooms executive rooms where you're fighting over

225
00:24:11.270 --> 00:24:14.490
craig@scalevp.com: what metrics to track, and whether the date is real.

226
00:24:14.490 --> 00:24:15.180
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah, okay.

227
00:24:15.180 --> 00:24:20.109
craig@scalevp.com: I'm sure you guys run into that all the time. It's 1 of the reasons why you exist. Right is help

228
00:24:20.170 --> 00:24:23.010
craig@scalevp.com: get us on the system where we can look at things.

229
00:24:23.100 --> 00:24:24.676
craig@scalevp.com: Yeah. And it's like,

230
00:24:25.190 --> 00:24:31.880
craig@scalevp.com: But like, can't you know it's can we just start there? And that's not as hard as you. I mean, it's hard because you got to bring people together.

231
00:24:31.940 --> 00:24:39.769
craig@scalevp.com: But we're not at, you know. Nobody's asking initially to redo all the infrastructure, you know. Like, let's just start with that one area, and you can

232
00:24:40.080 --> 00:24:48.919
craig@scalevp.com: sort of safely start with that. And it's not. It's it's really not disruptive. You keep doing the business the way you do.

233
00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:57.109
craig@scalevp.com: Keep doing what you do. Let's just look at it differently and come together on this on a weekly basis or bi-weekly basis.

234
00:24:57.300 --> 00:25:00.029
craig@scalevp.com: It's pretty funny how like meetings

235
00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:03.810
craig@scalevp.com: are a key part of the winning strategy process.

236
00:25:03.810 --> 00:25:04.990
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah, I think.

237
00:25:04.990 --> 00:25:10.270
craig@scalevp.com: Go along with, you know, just looking at data. So yeah, that that's really important. Because I do think

238
00:25:10.520 --> 00:25:15.499
craig@scalevp.com: there's a lot that Rev. Ops can do. And I'm like some of these guys I'm like, don't bring it up.

239
00:25:15.660 --> 00:25:16.460
craig@scalevp.com: Why.

240
00:25:17.110 --> 00:25:18.999
craig@scalevp.com: to add so much value.

241
00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:19.470
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

242
00:25:19.470 --> 00:25:21.169
craig@scalevp.com: So much value

243
00:25:21.180 --> 00:25:24.729
craig@scalevp.com: by taking the work marketing. Pride did on the customer journey.

244
00:25:25.420 --> 00:25:38.319
craig@scalevp.com: putting it together with marketing already has milestones, sales already? Has milestones. CS already has. Let's bring it together and look at it and say, I'm you know we are going to track it using this, and we're going to come together, and the CEO will be here

245
00:25:38.530 --> 00:25:42.059
craig@scalevp.com: to go. Look at the way we run our business. Let's agree to that. That's.

246
00:25:43.088 --> 00:26:03.419
Aaron Janmohamed: You're going into the next question I wanted to ask, which is with with all the portfolio customer accounts that you you advise, or that you work with. I'm sure you see great examples of that happening like, what is the ultimate impact of being able to tie tie that story together, and and what are some, maybe some specifics of the way that that journey could be tied together by Rev. Ops.

247
00:26:04.850 --> 00:26:05.610
craig@scalevp.com: Well.

248
00:26:06.413 --> 00:26:08.959
craig@scalevp.com: yeah, I know. I you know, I

249
00:26:08.970 --> 00:26:14.803
craig@scalevp.com: I think I've seen some. Really. I mentioned one really great Rev. Ops operators.

250
00:26:15.290 --> 00:26:18.700
craig@scalevp.com: in my last 2 years, like, great, yeah. And

251
00:26:19.520 --> 00:26:24.109
craig@scalevp.com: they're really data set. I think, like, in your business, you guys might be

252
00:26:24.320 --> 00:26:31.940
craig@scalevp.com: in the new entering the new era where the people that buy your stuff are way more data centric than they were 7 years ago.

253
00:26:31.940 --> 00:26:32.740
Aaron Janmohamed: Fair. Yeah.

254
00:26:32.740 --> 00:26:36.999
craig@scalevp.com: We're trying to talk about Rev. Ops software or forecasting, or whatever it's like.

255
00:26:37.130 --> 00:26:38.460
craig@scalevp.com: Now, these

256
00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:42.890
craig@scalevp.com: grab Ops guys come from the world of data, they they're. And and so

257
00:26:43.540 --> 00:26:50.919
craig@scalevp.com: I hate to be like that because I do feel like we just say data data data. But they are data driven. And they

258
00:26:51.230 --> 00:27:00.100
craig@scalevp.com: create. What I would say is like agreeable, like we use the word like at Gartner. We use the word coalition.

259
00:27:00.580 --> 00:27:06.910
craig@scalevp.com: because we know there's going to be different points of view, and all these things, and like.

260
00:27:07.020 --> 00:27:12.089
craig@scalevp.com: can we at least come together? And in a you know, with with your own

261
00:27:12.350 --> 00:27:15.669
craig@scalevp.com: way of working in these things and just have that conversation.

262
00:27:15.950 --> 00:27:22.299
craig@scalevp.com: But I would say, You know, my sign on great Rev. Ops leader is like. That's why I brought up Tom, like the things that he brings up

263
00:27:22.500 --> 00:27:24.909
craig@scalevp.com: are exactly what Rev. Ops people find.

264
00:27:25.070 --> 00:27:28.059
craig@scalevp.com: Yeah, because he's looking at the business

265
00:27:28.380 --> 00:27:34.370
craig@scalevp.com: end to end. And he's he's also qualitative. I actually wonder about this, Aaron. I'm sure some of your best

266
00:27:34.840 --> 00:27:45.410
craig@scalevp.com: customers are revos, people that are actually just really good listeners and picking up qualitative issues and seeing how they can integrate that.

267
00:27:45.883 --> 00:27:52.969
craig@scalevp.com: But the this the so anyway, I just as you know you were, gonna you had me on the show. You knew I'd be all over the place.

268
00:27:53.180 --> 00:27:57.158
craig@scalevp.com: The workflow part, though, is really interesting, right? Because

269
00:27:59.090 --> 00:28:02.239
craig@scalevp.com: How things move from one place to the other.

270
00:28:02.500 --> 00:28:08.020
craig@scalevp.com: and looking at that, I could, you know, really good Rev. Ops people, because they're looking at the business

271
00:28:08.380 --> 00:28:11.289
craig@scalevp.com: at the top, you know. They can see where things

272
00:28:11.360 --> 00:28:12.979
craig@scalevp.com: get broke or.

273
00:28:13.180 --> 00:28:13.880
Aaron Janmohamed: God.

274
00:28:14.250 --> 00:28:18.929
craig@scalevp.com: And that's often there's the process, the actual process. So like, let's say, it's

275
00:28:19.150 --> 00:28:25.119
craig@scalevp.com: something from initial call to what demo or something, you know that. You know that we can look at that.

276
00:28:25.470 --> 00:28:29.539
craig@scalevp.com: But when they're handoffs and there's back and forth between function.

277
00:28:29.820 --> 00:28:35.720
craig@scalevp.com: great Rev. Ops leaders just identify those issues, and they they try to solve them. But they couldn't do it

278
00:28:35.810 --> 00:28:38.120
craig@scalevp.com: unless they sort of start at the top. So

279
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:42.000
craig@scalevp.com: right now, it's like really interesting for me. I meet with a Rev. Ops person

280
00:28:42.140 --> 00:28:48.370
craig@scalevp.com: or leader, or whatever, and I can tell, by the way, that they're talking about their business, that they're doing the right things.

281
00:28:48.580 --> 00:28:50.210
craig@scalevp.com: It goes back to.

282
00:28:50.470 --> 00:28:51.460
craig@scalevp.com: This isn't

283
00:28:51.630 --> 00:28:54.010
craig@scalevp.com: a massive disruption. This is a way that you.

284
00:28:54.010 --> 00:28:54.590
Aaron Janmohamed: Got.

285
00:28:54.820 --> 00:29:00.559
craig@scalevp.com: Can work, and you can see that. You know I look for that, and I look for you know how they think about the world.

286
00:29:00.780 --> 00:29:03.399
craig@scalevp.com: The other thing now is like with

287
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:05.809
craig@scalevp.com: not being a software wonk.

288
00:29:06.560 --> 00:29:10.709
craig@scalevp.com: But like one of the reasons we talked about, you know, having a

289
00:29:11.110 --> 00:29:12.899
craig@scalevp.com: agreed upon sort of

290
00:29:13.180 --> 00:29:16.010
craig@scalevp.com: home for the data and the data that we look at.

291
00:29:16.480 --> 00:29:21.619
craig@scalevp.com: Oftentimes. Rev. Ops in the early. That's a lot of what they're fighting, right? Is like.

292
00:29:21.620 --> 00:29:22.280
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

293
00:29:22.280 --> 00:29:26.130
craig@scalevp.com: And once they get through that great Rev. Ops leaders can help

294
00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:33.269
craig@scalevp.com: the organization make really strategic and great decisions. You can't do that without software like, you can't do that without

295
00:29:33.470 --> 00:29:38.130
craig@scalevp.com: using technology to figure out where you know where the data is going to go.

296
00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:43.270
craig@scalevp.com: Come out in those things. And then when you do that, though, and you eliminate all the

297
00:29:44.940 --> 00:29:51.570
craig@scalevp.com: God, I don't even know what you call it dirty work, you know. It's like I have this question. It takes 3 days to sort of put together the answer.

298
00:29:51.570 --> 00:29:52.260
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

299
00:29:52.260 --> 00:29:57.030
craig@scalevp.com: Answers quickers. And Rev. Ops, you start to see this now, because

300
00:29:57.130 --> 00:30:03.170
craig@scalevp.com: we have this new generation of data centric tech centric folks that can build the infrastructure.

301
00:30:03.390 --> 00:30:11.429
craig@scalevp.com: It frees us up to help deliver real insights to the organization. Now that sounds like a tech pitch.

302
00:30:11.570 --> 00:30:19.520
craig@scalevp.com: it is. But it's actually real. It's actually real. Now you can't. If Rev. Ops is firefighting and spending all night doing

303
00:30:20.420 --> 00:30:25.869
craig@scalevp.com: reports on a question which ends up being the same report that was showed last week.

304
00:30:26.060 --> 00:30:29.299
craig@scalevp.com: We're never gonna be strategic, right? But.

305
00:30:29.300 --> 00:30:29.720
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

306
00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:31.910
craig@scalevp.com: And then AI will help us with

307
00:30:32.120 --> 00:30:43.769
craig@scalevp.com: even leading us down the path of insights. Those things are real, and they're all I mean. It's that's where you'll see. Great Rev. Ops leaders are helping the organization make great calls. And that guy, Tom I keep bringing. I can't tell you enough. I mean, this is like.

308
00:30:43.770 --> 00:30:44.440
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

309
00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:46.989
craig@scalevp.com: He's looking at breaks in the revenue chain.

310
00:30:47.050 --> 00:30:53.189
craig@scalevp.com: He's looking at big swings. He helps the Cro. Cmo. CEO. Think of our you know, customer.

311
00:30:53.678 --> 00:31:00.859
craig@scalevp.com: Leader there, think about well, what's the thing that will move growth? 30%. Let's look at the business.

312
00:31:00.990 --> 00:31:03.970
craig@scalevp.com: When you have guys like that or people like that.

313
00:31:04.420 --> 00:31:11.640
craig@scalevp.com: you know, you can actually make big swinging decisions because you're you're all looking at the right thing. And you see that from great Rev. Ops, we'll see that.

314
00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:31.379
Aaron Janmohamed: I totally agree. By the way, I will point out, you've you've regurgitated back to me maybe 70% of our 1st call pitch deck. No, that's awesome. It's it's validation that what you're hitting on the things that are most important or things that we're trying to solve for with technology. But the second point is.

315
00:31:31.390 --> 00:31:46.630
Aaron Janmohamed: even on the marketing upside. They, you know, I, I put operations people into these categories. Either they're gonna be reporters. They're gonna here's some data. Here's a report, or they're gonna point out gaps in the business that you need to close bottlenecks, things that you need proactively make decisions on

316
00:31:46.750 --> 00:31:55.940
Aaron Janmohamed: I. It can come down to as simple a point as that those that actually are transformative, the operations teams that become more strategic in an organization.

317
00:31:56.100 --> 00:32:12.720
Aaron Janmohamed: They think about how the business operates. As you said, the very beginning they're not thinking about. Here's some data about this point in the journey, or about sales, and how pipeline is getting generated, or about the funnel. It's it's they have that. But they also have this orientation around what needs to happen in order to improve

318
00:32:13.010 --> 00:32:15.790
Aaron Janmohamed: the the the core business outcomes.

319
00:32:15.900 --> 00:32:22.979
Aaron Janmohamed: and as intuitive or obvious as that might sound, it seems like there are a lot of people still trying to figure out how to get to that point.

320
00:32:23.895 --> 00:32:24.220
craig@scalevp.com: Yeah.

321
00:32:24.590 --> 00:32:25.110
craig@scalevp.com: yeah.

322
00:32:25.110 --> 00:32:25.600
Aaron Janmohamed: But.

323
00:32:26.350 --> 00:32:26.860
craig@scalevp.com: Yeah.

324
00:32:26.860 --> 00:32:27.300
Aaron Janmohamed: Go in.

325
00:32:27.300 --> 00:32:28.460
craig@scalevp.com: You know, like

326
00:32:30.190 --> 00:32:35.209
craig@scalevp.com: you know, the the vendor thought leadership class is always going to be ahead.

327
00:32:35.620 --> 00:32:43.030
craig@scalevp.com: and then it takes time. And like. That's what I was telling you. It's like we've been talking about this for a long time, but now we have

328
00:32:43.330 --> 00:32:52.450
craig@scalevp.com: a new type of person in the Rev. Ops. Even Cro. Cmo roles, who think about they're much closer to thinking about things.

329
00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:56.780
craig@scalevp.com: The way we should be thinking about, you know. So like change is slow.

330
00:32:56.780 --> 00:32:57.170
Aaron Janmohamed: You know.

331
00:32:57.170 --> 00:33:00.220
craig@scalevp.com: The other thing, though, is, I think.

332
00:33:02.030 --> 00:33:04.349
craig@scalevp.com: people, I would say.

333
00:33:04.500 --> 00:33:05.820
craig@scalevp.com: around

334
00:33:05.870 --> 00:33:09.189
craig@scalevp.com: just my life cycles in in venture rounds.

335
00:33:09.350 --> 00:33:13.879
craig@scalevp.com: But around BC, you're starting to see people build early.

336
00:33:14.280 --> 00:33:16.190
craig@scalevp.com: to be better

337
00:33:16.210 --> 00:33:19.509
craig@scalevp.com: at sort of looking at the business in the right way.

338
00:33:19.580 --> 00:33:24.749
craig@scalevp.com: and that that will help drive change too. But no, look, man, we're still gonna have

339
00:33:24.980 --> 00:33:26.930
craig@scalevp.com: is still going to be hard. This

340
00:33:27.270 --> 00:33:34.279
craig@scalevp.com: fighting the good fight. It's Ok, right? I mean, it's years of fighting.

341
00:33:35.080 --> 00:33:35.909
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah, like.

342
00:33:35.910 --> 00:33:37.829
craig@scalevp.com: Can't. It's hard to break, and

343
00:33:37.980 --> 00:33:42.149
craig@scalevp.com: but it's going to change. Man. There's just really great revolt stories, and, as you know.

344
00:33:42.360 --> 00:33:44.629
craig@scalevp.com: when there's a good Rev. Ops leader.

345
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:59.099
craig@scalevp.com: Whenever leadership leaves, wherever they are, they call that person, you know, in the old days, like crows, would bring their best reps first.st No man they're like you need this Rev. Ops guy in this business right now. They bring the Rev. Ops, and.

346
00:33:59.100 --> 00:33:59.980
Aaron Janmohamed: So true.

347
00:33:59.980 --> 00:34:05.019
craig@scalevp.com: Too. Cmos do, too like, even though they're not in their group. They're like, we need this person here.

348
00:34:05.020 --> 00:34:05.380
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

349
00:34:05.380 --> 00:34:13.249
craig@scalevp.com: Right now, and that's where you start to see things change, too. It's like the these people when they if you think about what we're describing

350
00:34:13.270 --> 00:34:15.900
craig@scalevp.com: through this whole podcast. What a

351
00:34:15.929 --> 00:34:23.160
craig@scalevp.com: I mean, I used to talk to people, why, what's the problem here, like, how is that? Possibly what we're describing

352
00:34:23.420 --> 00:34:36.149
craig@scalevp.com: worse or even equal to the way you're running business right now of you got to at least admit. Of course it's better now, you might say I can't do it. But like but how is it even remotely

353
00:34:36.280 --> 00:34:38.170
craig@scalevp.com: possible that that's not better.

354
00:34:38.600 --> 00:34:39.440
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

355
00:34:40.040 --> 00:34:46.699
craig@scalevp.com: It. Just it's it's crazy. So yeah, it's just I think it's us like we're we're just coming out of an era where

356
00:34:46.969 --> 00:34:48.880
craig@scalevp.com: or years of

357
00:34:48.920 --> 00:34:51.780
craig@scalevp.com: you know, Ptsd. On.

358
00:34:52.850 --> 00:34:54.980
craig@scalevp.com: you know, infighting and

359
00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:57.390
craig@scalevp.com: internal battling. So you know.

360
00:34:57.390 --> 00:34:58.379
Aaron Janmohamed: Oh, I that's it!

361
00:34:58.380 --> 00:34:58.780
craig@scalevp.com: Number.

362
00:34:58.780 --> 00:35:08.589
Aaron Janmohamed: That's a really good point. I you know, marketers like to say that marketing's job is to make sales easy. I'm going to extend that to Rev. Ops, Rev. Ops job is to make revenue growth easy.

363
00:35:08.590 --> 00:35:08.990
craig@scalevp.com: That's.

364
00:35:08.990 --> 00:35:15.850
Aaron Janmohamed: Or easier. I think that that's what comes down, I would say. Given our time. Maybe one last question is

365
00:35:15.870 --> 00:35:20.170
Aaron Janmohamed: the biggest, as you see it the biggest opportunity that Rev. Ops

366
00:35:20.190 --> 00:35:33.429
Aaron Janmohamed: teams and leaders can see this year. What what would that be if you were to point somebody, maybe new into a Rev. Ops function or organization shifting, transforming into Rev. Ops. What is the one big thing that you would advise them to to, to focus on.

367
00:35:35.240 --> 00:35:39.549
craig@scalevp.com: Well, I I'm trying to think of something that won't make it boring.

368
00:35:40.678 --> 00:35:43.542
Aaron Janmohamed: Sometimes the boring things are the best things.

369
00:35:43.900 --> 00:35:46.239
craig@scalevp.com: We talked about it the whole time. It's like

370
00:35:46.360 --> 00:35:47.370
craig@scalevp.com: Rev. Ops

371
00:35:47.770 --> 00:35:55.420
craig@scalevp.com: is the group, the person, etc. That will help us through these times. These times are about literally

372
00:35:55.770 --> 00:36:04.379
craig@scalevp.com: moving a conversion rate at some point in any part of the customer. Experience by 5% is huge.

373
00:36:04.380 --> 00:36:04.930
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

374
00:36:04.930 --> 00:36:18.939
craig@scalevp.com: You know, like, because everyone's just because not everyone can look at their business right away. They're like, where is all the pipeline? Look, the pipeline's down. I'm sorry it is not the same, and we're going to adjust, and we're going to figure these things out. But in the near term

375
00:36:18.950 --> 00:36:30.800
craig@scalevp.com: the answer is not, just get more pipeline. That is part of the answer. The answer is, Well, what's happening in the business where we can actually get lift with what we have. Revops is great at that.

376
00:36:30.850 --> 00:36:32.120
craig@scalevp.com: They're great at that.

377
00:36:32.200 --> 00:36:36.670
craig@scalevp.com: I mean, like, because and that's where you can really add value today, which is like.

378
00:36:36.730 --> 00:36:39.440
craig@scalevp.com: have we squeezed all the juice out of the orange?

379
00:36:39.770 --> 00:36:44.599
craig@scalevp.com: Likely not, because your 1st thing is well, let's go look at what's happening here, could we.

380
00:36:44.610 --> 00:36:48.200
craig@scalevp.com: instead of just thinking things in big groups, which is more leads.

381
00:36:48.600 --> 00:36:49.849
craig@scalevp.com: sell more stuff.

382
00:36:50.500 --> 00:36:59.810
craig@scalevp.com: get them on board. Can. Rev. Ops can come in and say, well, you know, if we just did this differently, we're here. What would happen

383
00:36:59.950 --> 00:37:02.979
craig@scalevp.com: like you brought up the buyer enablement thing. That's actually

384
00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:05.029
craig@scalevp.com: right. That's a big move.

385
00:37:05.030 --> 00:37:05.400
Aaron Janmohamed: Yeah.

386
00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:07.190
craig@scalevp.com: Probably. You know a

387
00:37:07.770 --> 00:37:14.910
craig@scalevp.com: whew! I mean, that's so. Key. I don't even know what kind of closed conversion rate changed with you guys. But I bet it was big.

388
00:37:14.980 --> 00:37:26.180
craig@scalevp.com: Yeah, that's that's what we need right now. You asked. Like right now, right now, everything we just talked about just that simple, wet, not simple, complex, but great, like one thing.

389
00:37:26.330 --> 00:37:26.729
Aaron Janmohamed: They are.

390
00:37:26.730 --> 00:37:27.879
craig@scalevp.com: Look at the business

391
00:37:27.980 --> 00:37:44.310
craig@scalevp.com: and get everyone together and think about optimizing because it can't just be. We need more pipeline. It is. We need more pipeline. But like, what about like now? You said now, it's like right now we got to squeeze every piece of juice out of the orange, and that's revops to me. They do that.

392
00:37:44.550 --> 00:37:46.050
craig@scalevp.com: They figure, I mean, like

393
00:37:46.180 --> 00:37:50.299
craig@scalevp.com: they they figure that stuff out. And and so, yeah, so I

394
00:37:50.380 --> 00:37:57.760
craig@scalevp.com: unfortunately go back to what we do, because you've got to be careful, like a rebuff person comes in and everything's broken. Typically.

395
00:37:58.000 --> 00:37:58.370
Aaron Janmohamed: See, they go.

396
00:37:58.658 --> 00:38:02.409
craig@scalevp.com: Fix a bunch of stuff, and they prioritize like, well, look right now.

397
00:38:02.610 --> 00:38:23.900
craig@scalevp.com: everyone's working to hit the number. This isn't, you know, 2021 or 2017, where it's like, if you do 10 webinars, you're going to hit the number because everything's going to flow through into into sales. Now we you know, we got to look at the business critically and look at these different milestones in a much more specific way. Man.

398
00:38:24.020 --> 00:38:29.680
craig@scalevp.com: there's nothing better, I mean, I brought up you asked me about the best revenos people they're looking. They're bringing up things

399
00:38:29.800 --> 00:38:34.170
craig@scalevp.com: across every part of the life cycle where they're like, if we just did this, we could.

400
00:38:34.190 --> 00:38:38.719
craig@scalevp.com: we could get more here. And that's the kind we actually need that desperately right now.

401
00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:39.540
Aaron Janmohamed: You know.

402
00:38:39.790 --> 00:38:40.849
craig@scalevp.com: I hope that helps.

403
00:38:41.444 --> 00:38:41.849
Aaron Janmohamed: Does.

404
00:38:41.850 --> 00:38:42.370
craig@scalevp.com: Wasn't.

405
00:38:42.370 --> 00:38:42.690
Aaron Janmohamed: And.

406
00:38:42.690 --> 00:38:44.340
craig@scalevp.com: That. Wasn't that boring that wasn't.

407
00:38:44.340 --> 00:38:50.270
Aaron Janmohamed: That. Wasn't that boring that was awesome. I great way to end the the session. So, Craig, thank you so much.

408
00:38:50.940 --> 00:38:51.500
Aaron Janmohamed: All right.

409
00:38:51.500 --> 00:38:53.679
craig@scalevp.com: I mean, man, I love hanging out with you so anytime.